it's not even settled if opensim ever will have any money system, and openlifegrid uses opensim:  http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Money

I think it will be a bad mistake to not include money in some form.  The system needs a fluid method of exchange for goods and services that is transparent and that the avie doesnt have to think about...an external wallet system sound cumbersome to me.

Also, when people role place and when another grid opens up that is a strict medieval world, they are not going to want trade in "credits" or whatever, they are going to want to trade in "Crowns" or something.

I believe each grid should be free to set there own name of currency and exchange rate and we should setup mechanisms to allow for inter-grid buying and selling.   If w had a robust economic model, it could even be used in Highschool and College economics classes to role-play international commerce.

There is so much we could do with it...

i understand...

but you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater....

You have to figure out how to limit the bad stuff, but not penalize the people who want to do good things...

I dont like the idea of a money system in an open grid. Yes, maybe with paypal plugins to transfer money in RL, but keep the money in RL. It does enough harm in RL.

... a virtual community has the chance to make a different economic system. Maybe just exchanging items, or giving for free??? openLife like openSource, nobody gets money, the community works on a project for different reasons than money... Wow, what a strange idea these days...but just exactly that happend not too long ago. A few hundred years ago, economy was based on exchange.

There were functionally economic systems before, maybe with one disadvantage: it was much more difficult to be rich, one had to put labour in it to get wealthy.

Why do we all think, that the structures of RL and of a virtual life have to be the same? Money brought humans to a very bad point...most of the problems these days come from the greed for money. It also started in SL, just walk through those empty sims, that are packed with grey ugly buildings and hundreds of Ads for buying this or that.

OK, if you all want openLife as a method, of having your income in RL, then i'm wrong. But if openLife wants to be a "better" place, then think about alternatives.

Greetings, Galen

I think this debate really refers to "in world" money like the Linden $, Openlife already has a "tier" payment for owning land (a region) which effectively pays for the hardware and support functions.

This is a totally separate issue, both for OpenLife and Second Life (since second life tier cannot be paid in L$)!

Clearly there has to be some "real world" way to pay expenses, the real question is whether this is done  via some "in world" economy/businesses or through some other mechanism such as user (avatar) fees, donations of some sort., or some entirely new mechanism.

Oh yes, someone mentioned that various "themes" might like different currencies - I see that as merely an alias issue. If we make up say the OL$, then in a medieval area can call it "Crowns", a Sci-Fi theme calls it "credits" etc. Provided that they all had the same value then this should not be hard to add.

Is there any good reason why we cannot just use's Second Life's existing financial structure, either for the time being or permanently?  Almost al of us have avatars on SL, and those who do not can set up one for free.  Let's say I decide to subdivide and rent out land on my sim.  I tell my tenatns to sign into SL and pay L$XXXX to my SL avatar.  I wouldn't mind being paid in Lindens :-)

I understand the reluctance to implement money in an open source sim, but I do believe that it's going to have to happen.  There's only so far that a society can go without commerce.  And introducing an economy will make OpenlifeGrid grow much faster than it would otherwaise, as people pile on in hopes of making sales and earning income.  Altruism is nice, but the desire to earn money  is a bigger motivator for many people.

Sakai's not the one to talk to about these things;  he has his hands full running OLG.  The discussion about money systems and the future of the opensim project is at http://opensimulator.org/

i would be happy to have internal currency only. want to make this different from SL and that will be hard if we bring everyting from SL in, that includes the content developers.

why not make this like SL used to be before they started the exchange and take it in a different direction from there? if i want to buy and sell then i will just go to SL, but i will live in a truly different world in OLG

this brings me to this idea, why not have a structured democracy with voting, a government and courts? thats whats missing in SL and ive always felt very horrible about that. easy for people to get abused and lost in there

My use of OLG is solely for the purpose of building a replica of a RL buddhist temple and use it as a library and maybe have some regular discussions. I don't need any economic systems in world. Why can't people use the virtual world like they use the regular internet? Shopping on the net is done using credit card or paypal or some other system that are proven and safe. Why complicate matters trying to re-invent the wheel? You have something to sell, use real money (credit card).

People have this idea that creating and selling virtual items somehow is as real as creating and selling RL items... I can't wait until people wake up from this dream.

>>You have something to sell, use real money (credit card).

Is the irony here intentional?  But seriously, I would like to see an in-world economy.  If credit cards or paypal are used, code would have to be developed to process the exchange in a seamless way to make it painless.  An in-world currency would be more convenient for the user, but then Sakai would have to get that set up on his end, and I'm not sure how he feels about that.  Sakai?  Your input?

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  REMAINDER OF THIS POST IS PARTLY OFF TOPIC AND SOME MAY FIND CONTENT OFFENSIVE!  YOU CAN STOP READING HERE IF YOU LIKE!!!!

>>People have this idea that creating and selling virtual items somehow is as real as creating and selling RL items... I can't wait until people wake up >>from this dream.

I'd like to continue that conversation we had in chat that one day, Pratyeka!  However, I've gotten negative feedback about off-topic debates in chat!  I will say that whether the item is virtual or real, its value is what people are willing to pay for it.  I was a musician in SL, and streamed live guitar music for tips.  The music was real, as well as the money I recieved (as real as Lindens can be!)  So I'd like to think that there was value in the sound waves I pumped into SL, as ethereal as they were.  The (few) people that tipped me apparently found value in it. 

So to me, there's no difference between that transaction and one concerning a virtual item.  I don't plan to create an empire in OLG, but I'd like to be able to occasionally buy quality virtual items that I don't have the skill or the time to create myself.  I don't expect everyone to just give away their best items that they've sweated over for hours.  I don't believe the world, virtual or real, works that way. 

I'd also like to be able to donate to the builds that I find impressive, useful, or just plain entertaining.  If you have a donation pot outside your temple, and I'm in a good mood, I might just drop a few Sakais into your kitty.  Hey!  I like that!  Sakais for the unit of currency!  You read it here first.

Maybe some people are afraid that in-world currency/economy will encourage undesirable activities, and that's probably true.  But it's also what, in my opinion, will allow the grid to be dynamic and lively.  It's kind of like saying oxygen is bad because some bacteria thrive in it.   Anyway, my vote is for some kind of in-world currency.